Discussion:
Little boys......
(too old to reply)
Bev
2005-12-31 17:27:51 UTC
Permalink
As I have mentioned before I babysit my 3 year old grandson. On several
occasions , while he and my grandaughter are playing they play
dress-up. One day my step daughter arrived to pick him up and he had
little pony tails and baretts all over his head. She asked what is
that? Mari explained my grandaughter wanted these things in her hair
and he asked to have them too so she put them in. My step daughter says
oh don't let his father see this. We laughed and said it is innocent
play. The next day he arrived with a crew cut!

Then the real problems began when my granddaugher got a vanity set with
play lipstick and rouge, and earings and even a little purple tu-tu,
ballerina slippers and Tiara . He wants to wear these things and I
really myself feel it is harmless, but then I have never had a boy to
raise and never have been confronted with this before. I know his
mother does not want him to play this way , it is not my place to allow
something she is against and I do not know how to explain this to a
three year old. Mind you it is not fair to allow my grandaughter this
and say no to him? I have tried putting the stuff away but if my
grandaughter asks for it , I feel it is something she should not be
denied. Then there are the times he finds her dresses and puts them on
himself. Please mothers and fathers of boys enlighten me! What should I
or can I do to do the right thing? I myself have no feelings that a
three year old boy has any thoughts of sexual orientation or that
innocent play at this age will turn him into a homosexual. I know as a
fact that this little guy has been taught to not like the color pink,
he refuses to eat or drink out of anything pink or play with anything
pink including pink clothing.
I am upset that people would be so silly to do such a thing to a young
child. I know his Nanny Gayle would have a lot to say to her daughter,
I would be upset to have them pull him away from me if I spoke my mind
about how I feel.

Bev
-=RaOuL=-
2005-12-31 18:23:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bev
As I have mentioned before I babysit my 3 year old grandson. On several
occasions , while he and my grandaughter are playing they play
dress-up. One day my step daughter arrived to pick him up and he had
little pony tails and baretts all over his head. She asked what is
that? Mari explained my grandaughter wanted these things in her hair
and he asked to have them too so she put them in. My step daughter says
oh don't let his father see this. We laughed and said it is innocent
play. The next day he arrived with a crew cut!
---SNIP---

I'm no expert, but what I would try is to redirect the lad to what might be
considered "appropriate play." When the girl is playing with her "girl toys"
pull out a truck or something. Make some noises with it - boys like to play
with things that they can make noise with! Vroom-vroom!! I think redirection
is the key....

-=RaOuL=-
Bev
2006-01-01 15:10:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by -=RaOuL=-
Post by Bev
As I have mentioned before I babysit my 3 year old grandson. On several
occasions , while he and my grandaughter are playing they play
dress-up. One day my step daughter arrived to pick him up and he had
little pony tails and baretts all over his head. She asked what is
that? Mari explained my grandaughter wanted these things in her hair
and he asked to have them too so she put them in. My step daughter says
oh don't let his father see this. We laughed and said it is innocent
play. The next day he arrived with a crew cut!
---SNIP---
I'm no expert, but what I would try is to redirect the lad to what might be
considered "appropriate play." When the girl is playing with her "girl toys"
pull out a truck or something. Make some noises with it - boys like to play
with things that they can make noise with! Vroom-vroom!! I think redirection
is the key....
-=RaOuL=-
I'm almost certain you are a Father........forgive me if I am mistaken.


As much as redirection may help side track his attention from the "girl
toys" to the "boy toys", do you also think I should redirect my
grandaughter from the "boys toys" to the "girls toys?" What would you
say to a little boy that comes out from the bedroom dressed in his
sisters dress? Do you think it would be cute or innapropriate for your
daughter to wear your work boots? See this is the problem I think . Bev
-=RaOuL=-
2006-01-01 20:05:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bev
Post by -=RaOuL=-
---SNIP---
I'm no expert, but what I would try is to redirect the lad to what might be
considered "appropriate play." When the girl is playing with her "girl toys"
pull out a truck or something. Make some noises with it - boys like to play
with things that they can make noise with! Vroom-vroom!! I think redirection
is the key....
-=RaOuL=-
I'm almost certain you are a Father........forgive me if I am mistaken.
Yup, dad of 3 boys! Ages 12, 8 and 2.... The 12 year old lives with me full
time, the other 2 are here part time, and with their mom part time.
Post by Bev
As much as redirection may help side track his attention from the "girl
toys" to the "boy toys", do you also think I should redirect my
grandaughter from the "boys toys" to the "girls toys?"
Only if her parents object to her playing with "boy toys."
Post by Bev
What would you say to a little boy that comes out from the bedroom
dressed in his
Post by Bev
sisters dress?
How old is he? If this is a 3 year old, I'd say (in a cute way) "that's
silly! you're a boy and that's girl clothes!" If the boy is a teen I'd
probably react a little differently - not in a mean way but in a concerned
way ("isn't that top a bit low cut?")
Post by Bev
Do you think it would be cute or innapropriate for your
daughter to wear your work boots? See this is the problem I think . Bev
Are her feet that big? ;) Seriously, it wouldn't bother me.

It's been my observation that as children age and interact with their peers
they're likely to conform or be beaten into conformance. It happened when I
was a kid, and now I see it among my kid's peers. One boy came to a Cub
Scout meeting last year (7 year old boys) with nail polish on his finger
nails. He wasn't overtly ridiculed, but he was asked alot of questions by
the other boys. At the next Scout meeting he didn't have any nail polish on.
Peer pressure has a way of working on kids, for better or worse, to make
them either conform to "social norms" or survive as outcasts.

I'm surviving pretty well as an outcast...
-=RaOuL=-
Bev
2006-01-02 06:25:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by -=RaOuL=-
Post by Bev
I'm almost certain you are a Father........forgive me if I am mistaken.
Yup, dad of 3 boys! Ages 12, 8 and 2.... The 12 year old lives with me full
time, the other 2 are here part time, and with their mom part time.
glad my memory still works sometimes! Three boys...my brother and wife
just had their 4th boy!
Post by -=RaOuL=-
Post by Bev
As much as redirection may help side track his attention from the "girl
toys" to the "boy toys", do you also think I should redirect my
grandaughter from the "boys toys" to the "girls toys?"
Only if her parents object to her playing with "boy toys."
Her parents both just turned 18 , not together and still have a lot of
growing to do. Her dad has her into four wheeling and her mom (my
daughter) has bought her a basketball hoop and trucks and cars cause
she loves them! We just bought her a little mini quad to tool around on
too!
Post by -=RaOuL=-
Post by Bev
What would you say to a little boy that comes out from the bedroom
dressed in his
Post by Bev
sisters dress?
How old is he? If this is a 3 year old, I'd say (in a cute way) "that's
silly! you're a boy and that's girl clothes!" If the boy is a teen I'd
probably react a little differently - not in a mean way but in a concerned
way ("isn't that top a bit low cut?")
Yea he is 3 and that is close to exactly what my response was to him .
He said I like them and went about his business.
Post by -=RaOuL=-
Post by Bev
Do you think it would be cute or innapropriate for your
daughter to wear your work boots? See this is the problem I think . Bev
Are her feet that big? ;) Seriously, it wouldn't bother me.
LOL! hopefully her feet are a bit smaller.
Post by -=RaOuL=-
It's been my observation that as children age and interact with their peers
they're likely to conform or be beaten into conformance. It happened when I
was a kid, and now I see it among my kid's peers. One boy came to a Cub
Scout meeting last year (7 year old boys) with nail polish on his finger
nails. He wasn't overtly ridiculed, but he was asked alot of questions by
the other boys. At the next Scout meeting he didn't have any nail polish on.
Peer pressure has a way of working on kids, for better or worse, to make
them either conform to "social norms" or survive as outcasts.
This is very true , and I am sure kids go through many phases of
learning who they are, I have seen teenage boys and girls do some
strange things with their hair and clothes . My daughter has always
been "different" as have been some of the boys she has introduced me
to.I will never forget the one with the green mohawk and the nuts and
bolts in his face, I just wish she had warned me just a little before I
opened the door to him cause I know the look on my face was priceless!
Post by -=RaOuL=-
I'm surviving pretty well as an outcast...
-=RaOuL=-
yea me too, but I swear I do not know where my daughter learned to be
so elaborate with the hair colors, styles, piercings and tatoos cause I
have none at all ! I do not even wear makeup!
Bev
-=RaOuL=-
2006-01-03 01:08:01 UTC
Permalink
"Bev" <***@aol.com> wrote in message news:***@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
---snip---
Post by Bev
glad my memory still works sometimes! Three boys...my brother and wife
just had their 4th boy!
YeeHaw!!! Y'know, I didn't notice much difference between 2 and 3 boys here.
Still always a ruckus. Still never enough snacks on hand. Adding a 4th
probably isn't all that bad. It might lead me to a fifth though... ;)
Post by Bev
Post by -=RaOuL=-
Post by Bev
As much as redirection may help side track his attention from the "girl
toys" to the "boy toys", do you also think I should redirect my
grandaughter from the "boys toys" to the "girls toys?"
Only if her parents object to her playing with "boy toys."
Her parents both just turned 18 , not together and still have a lot of
growing to do. Her dad has her into four wheeling and her mom (my
daughter) has bought her a basketball hoop and trucks and cars cause
she loves them! We just bought her a little mini quad to tool around on
too!
Yikes! In most cases I would defer to the wishes of the parents, but with
parents who are so young themselves I'd be tempted to give too much advice
and question their wishes.... But there is something cool about playing with
the kid's toys - especially a quad!
Post by Bev
Post by -=RaOuL=-
Post by Bev
What would you say to a little boy that comes out from the bedroom
dressed in his
Post by Bev
sisters dress?
How old is he? If this is a 3 year old, I'd say (in a cute way) "that's
silly! you're a boy and that's girl clothes!" If the boy is a teen I'd
probably react a little differently - not in a mean way but in a concerned
way ("isn't that top a bit low cut?")
Yea he is 3 and that is close to exactly what my response was to him .
He said I like them and went about his business.
Someday he'll feel differently...
Post by Bev
Post by -=RaOuL=-
Post by Bev
Do you think it would be cute or innapropriate for your
daughter to wear your work boots? See this is the problem I think . Bev
Are her feet that big? ;) Seriously, it wouldn't bother me.
LOL! hopefully her feet are a bit smaller.
Post by -=RaOuL=-
It's been my observation that as children age and interact with their peers
they're likely to conform or be beaten into conformance. It happened when I
was a kid, and now I see it among my kid's peers. One boy came to a Cub
Scout meeting last year (7 year old boys) with nail polish on his finger
nails. He wasn't overtly ridiculed, but he was asked alot of questions by
the other boys. At the next Scout meeting he didn't have any nail polish on.
Peer pressure has a way of working on kids, for better or worse, to make
them either conform to "social norms" or survive as outcasts.
This is very true , and I am sure kids go through many phases of
learning who they are, I have seen teenage boys and girls do some
strange things with their hair and clothes . My daughter has always
been "different" as have been some of the boys she has introduced me
to.I will never forget the one with the green mohawk and the nuts and
bolts in his face, I just wish she had warned me just a little before I
opened the door to him cause I know the look on my face was priceless!
I always wanted to have a green mohawk but never had the guts :(
Post by Bev
Post by -=RaOuL=-
I'm surviving pretty well as an outcast...
-=RaOuL=-
yea me too, but I swear I do not know where my daughter learned to be
so elaborate with the hair colors, styles, piercings and tatoos cause I
have none at all ! I do not even wear makeup!
Bev
The hair colors, styles, piercings and tottoos are probably things that are
popular with her peers. I didn't get my sense of style (or lack thereof)
from my parents, but from my peers. Thankfully, my boys hang around with
other boys who have what I would consider "reasonable" style...
'Kate
2005-12-31 18:43:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bev
As I have mentioned before I babysit my 3 year old grandson. On several
occasions , while he and my grandaughter are playing they play
dress-up. One day my step daughter arrived to pick him up and he had
little pony tails and baretts all over his head. She asked what is
that? Mari explained my grandaughter wanted these things in her hair
and he asked to have them too so she put them in. My step daughter says
oh don't let his father see this. We laughed and said it is innocent
play. The next day he arrived with a crew cut!
Then the real problems began when my granddaugher got a vanity set with
play lipstick and rouge, and earings and even a little purple tu-tu,
ballerina slippers and Tiara . He wants to wear these things and I
really myself feel it is harmless, but then I have never had a boy to
raise and never have been confronted with this before. I know his
mother does not want him to play this way , it is not my place to allow
something she is against and I do not know how to explain this to a
three year old. Mind you it is not fair to allow my grandaughter this
and say no to him? I have tried putting the stuff away but if my
grandaughter asks for it , I feel it is something she should not be
denied. Then there are the times he finds her dresses and puts them on
himself. Please mothers and fathers of boys enlighten me! What should I
or can I do to do the right thing? I myself have no feelings that a
three year old boy has any thoughts of sexual orientation or that
innocent play at this age will turn him into a homosexual. I know as a
fact that this little guy has been taught to not like the color pink,
he refuses to eat or drink out of anything pink or play with anything
pink including pink clothing.
I am upset that people would be so silly to do such a thing to a young
child. I know his Nanny Gayle would have a lot to say to her daughter,
I would be upset to have them pull him away from me if I spoke my mind
about how I feel.
Bev
The parents are overreacting. The boy is 3, not 13. It does not cause
gayness or transvestitism. It won't affect his masculine identity
development. Boys grow up to be manly men despite our best efforts to
socialize them (joke). :-)

He barely knows he's a "boy" at this point... and he won't remember
dressing up when he's older unless someone takes a picture to embarrass
him with later.

Here's something you may be able to use to calm the parents down:

Children realize that they are male or female and are aware of
the gender of others by the age of three. However, at these ages
they still do not understand that people cannot change genders
the way they can change their clothes, names, or behavior.
Kohlberg theorized that children do not learn to behave in
gender-appropriate ways until they understand that gender is
permanent, which occurs at about the age of seven. At this point
they start modeling the behavior of members of their own sex.

Try taking out the makeup and dress up stuff earlier in the visit so
that you have time to get him cleaned up. 3 year olds get bored pretty
quickly and that'll get that over with. And he might not like the
cleaning up afterward.

'Kate
Bev
2006-01-01 15:00:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by 'Kate
The parents are overreacting. The boy is 3, not 13. It does not cause
gayness or transvestitism. It won't affect his masculine identity
development. Boys grow up to be manly men despite our best efforts to
socialize them (joke). :-)
Thats what I thought, and the strange thing is is that I see more
attention is put on a little boy playing with dolls or girlie toys but
little girls get away with the trucks and basketballs without much
attention?!?!?!
Post by 'Kate
He barely knows he's a "boy" at this point... and he won't remember
dressing up when he's older unless someone takes a picture to embarrass
him with later.
Mari thinks we should take the picture and give it to his parents LOL!
I know the trouble that will cause and I will neve see him
again.........
Post by 'Kate
Children realize that they are male or female and are aware of
the gender of others by the age of three. However, at these ages
they still do not understand that people cannot change genders
the way they can change their clothes, names, or behavior.
Kohlberg theorized that children do not learn to behave in
gender-appropriate ways until they understand that gender is
permanent, which occurs at about the age of seven. At this point
they start modeling the behavior of members of their own sex.
Try taking out the makeup and dress up stuff earlier in the visit so
that you have time to get him cleaned up. 3 year olds get bored pretty
quickly and that'll get that over with. And he might not like the
cleaning up afterward.
I printed that out Kate thanks! I think I will do just that...early on
with the dress up and maybe things will feel more comfortable for
me...I really don't want to have a confrontation .
The responses that I did receive pretty much reflects how I feel about
this. Didn't hear much from the male/daddy side of this though? Guys
any thoughts on this?
Bev
Post by 'Kate
'Kate
'Kate
2006-01-01 16:46:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bev
Post by 'Kate
The parents are overreacting. The boy is 3, not 13. It does not cause
gayness or transvestitism. It won't affect his masculine identity
development. Boys grow up to be manly men despite our best efforts to
socialize them (joke). :-)
Thats what I thought, and the strange thing is is that I see more
attention is put on a little boy playing with dolls or girlie toys but
little girls get away with the trucks and basketballs without much
attention?!?!?!
Being a "tomboy" is ok. Being a "sissy boy" is not.
Post by Bev
Post by 'Kate
He barely knows he's a "boy" at this point... and he won't remember
dressing up when he's older unless someone takes a picture to embarrass
him with later.
Mari thinks we should take the picture and give it to his parents LOL!
I know the trouble that will cause and I will neve see him
again.........
Mari's a troublemaker, isn't she? :-)
Post by Bev
Post by 'Kate
Children realize that they are male or female and are aware of
the gender of others by the age of three. However, at these ages
they still do not understand that people cannot change genders
the way they can change their clothes, names, or behavior.
Kohlberg theorized that children do not learn to behave in
gender-appropriate ways until they understand that gender is
permanent, which occurs at about the age of seven. At this point
they start modeling the behavior of members of their own sex.
Try taking out the makeup and dress up stuff earlier in the visit so
that you have time to get him cleaned up. 3 year olds get bored pretty
quickly and that'll get that over with. And he might not like the
cleaning up afterward.
I printed that out Kate thanks! I think I will do just that...early on
with the dress up and maybe things will feel more comfortable for
me...I really don't want to have a confrontation .
The responses that I did receive pretty much reflects how I feel about
this.
Yeah, the kid is pretty normal. If the parents are all that concerned
about their son's gender role development, then dad should spend more
time with the kid so that he gets a balanced view of masculine and
feminine behaviors.

Personally, I think the parents don't loosen up a bit, they're going to
be in my office in ten years saying, "I don't know what happened. We did
everything right. Why isn't he the perfect son?" $120/hr., 3x per week.
So.. that's ok with me. :-)

'Kate
Bev
2006-01-02 06:48:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by 'Kate
Post by Bev
Post by 'Kate
The parents are overreacting. The boy is 3, not 13. It does not cause
gayness or transvestitism. It won't affect his masculine identity
development. Boys grow up to be manly men despite our best efforts to
socialize them (joke). :-)
Thats what I thought, and the strange thing is is that I see more
attention is put on a little boy playing with dolls or girlie toys but
little girls get away with the trucks and basketballs without much
attention?!?!?!
Being a "tomboy" is ok. Being a "sissy boy" is not.
gosh "tomboy" I havent heard that in a long time LOL!
Post by 'Kate
Post by Bev
Post by 'Kate
He barely knows he's a "boy" at this point... and he won't remember
dressing up when he's older unless someone takes a picture to embarrass
him with later.
Mari thinks we should take the picture and give it to his parents LOL!
I know the trouble that will cause and I will neve see him
again.........
Mari's a troublemaker, isn't she? :-)
Uh yes she is as a fact of matter.........I never cause any trouble
myself <grin>
Post by 'Kate
Post by Bev
Post by 'Kate
Children realize that they are male or female and are aware of
the gender of others by the age of three. However, at these ages
they still do not understand that people cannot change genders
the way they can change their clothes, names, or behavior.
Kohlberg theorized that children do not learn to behave in
gender-appropriate ways until they understand that gender is
permanent, which occurs at about the age of seven. At this point
they start modeling the behavior of members of their own sex.
Try taking out the makeup and dress up stuff earlier in the visit so
that you have time to get him cleaned up. 3 year olds get bored pretty
quickly and that'll get that over with. And he might not like the
cleaning up afterward.
I printed that out Kate thanks! I think I will do just that...early on
with the dress up and maybe things will feel more comfortable for
me...I really don't want to have a confrontation .
The responses that I did receive pretty much reflects how I feel about
this.
Yeah, the kid is pretty normal. If the parents are all that concerned
about their son's gender role development, then dad should spend more
time with the kid so that he gets a balanced view of masculine and
feminine behaviors.
Personally, I think the parents don't loosen up a bit, they're going to
be in my office in ten years saying, "I don't know what happened. We did
everything right. Why isn't he the perfect son?" $120/hr., 3x per week.
So.. that's ok with me. :-)
LOL! Hey....I'd have to work a whole 40 hours to make that!
Bev
Post by 'Kate
'Kate
'Kate
2006-01-02 16:14:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bev
Post by 'Kate
Mari's a troublemaker, isn't she? :-)
Uh yes she is as a fact of matter.........I never cause any trouble
myself <grin>
I hadn't noticed. <making sure blindfold is secure>
Post by Bev
Post by 'Kate
Personally, I think the parents don't loosen up a bit, they're going to
be in my office in ten years saying, "I don't know what happened. We did
everything right. Why isn't he the perfect son?" $120/hr., 3x per week.
So.. that's ok with me. :-)
LOL! Hey....I'd have to work a whole 40 hours to make that!
Bev
Look like a lot, huh? Seven years of school, an additional year of paid
training, and I will still have to pay for licensing fees, professional
association memberships, CEU's & conferences, malpractice insurance,
office space, advertising, phone and answering service, business
equipment, taxes, accountant fees, etc.
SHERRY
2006-01-06 21:57:47 UTC
Permalink
I see nothing wrong with it at all. Like others have said he is 3 years
old! I know a few little boys that have like girl toys (dress up,
dolls, barbies and ect.) and they are fine. Example: My cousin is 20
years old and he loved playing with me when we were little there is 2
years between us and he is in college and has a sweet girl in his life
and is getting married soon. He loves fast cars, and enjoys fishing
and all other things that guys like to do.
xkatx
2005-12-31 21:29:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bev
As I have mentioned before I babysit my 3 year old grandson. On several
occasions , while he and my grandaughter are playing they play
dress-up. One day my step daughter arrived to pick him up and he had
little pony tails and baretts all over his head. She asked what is
that? Mari explained my grandaughter wanted these things in her hair
and he asked to have them too so she put them in. My step daughter says
oh don't let his father see this. We laughed and said it is innocent
play. The next day he arrived with a crew cut!
Then the real problems began when my granddaugher got a vanity set with
play lipstick and rouge, and earings and even a little purple tu-tu,
ballerina slippers and Tiara . He wants to wear these things and I
really myself feel it is harmless, but then I have never had a boy to
raise and never have been confronted with this before.
I really don't think there's much of a difference at this age in raising
boys or girls. I also see no harm in a little boy playing dress up, just as
I see no harm in a little girl playing with trucks and GI Joes.
Post by Bev
I know his
mother does not want him to play this way , it is not my place to allow
something she is against and I do not know how to explain this to a
three year old. Mind you it is not fair to allow my grandaughter this
and say no to him? I have tried putting the stuff away but if my
grandaughter asks for it , I feel it is something she should not be
denied.
As far as I'm concerned, playing is playing, but yes, I see your point of
not wanting to go against what Mom says, in the place of Grandma. There's
really not much you can do to explain this to a 3 year old. Your
granddaughter shouldn't be denied what is hers to play with, but how can you
say yes to her but not to your grandson? Do you have "boy" toys around?
Would it be possible to take both kids shopping, or just your grandson one
day, and have him pick out a special toy that he really wants that he can
keep at your house to play with? Maybe taking both kids out to pick out a
toy that they can both play with together that stays at Grandmas could be an
idea... I don't know what... Just something like a small train set,
basketball and net set, maybe even some cars or trucks of some sort. Find
something that both can play together.
Post by Bev
Then there are the times he finds her dresses and puts them on
himself.
Meh. I actually remember when I was about 8 years old, I dressed my little
brothers both up in my dresses. That would have made my brothers about 5
and 2, and I put their hair in piggies and bows and they looked so
beautiful. My mom's eyes popped right out of her head and she nearly busted
a gut laughing and even ran to get the camera. I do remember them agreeing
to it, and they even had a good laugh about it. Neither has turned gay
today because I made them all pretty when they were younger. Even today, my
son will sit with me in the bathroom while I do my hair or something. He
wanted his nails painted one day, so I bring out the nail polish and I
painted his nails the colors he wanted - purple and red and just one finger
blue. When he was about 2 or so, I put him in a set of underwear that I
didn't care much for that my grandma bought - because it was a good price -
that would never fit her in a million years... So off I go with B to the
back room, put on a floral bra and matching panties over his clothes and
send him out to see Baba, Grandma and Uncle. My cousin took a picture of
it, and we all had a good laugh about it. Last year for B's birthday, my
cousin took that picture and made a birthday card for B with that picture on
it. Again, we all had a pretty good laugh.
For my SON'S first Christmas, I bought him a little doll. It was a little
boy doll, and the only person who had a problem with it was my uncle, one of
my brothers and my dad didn't care much for it, but you know what? Bran is
now so good with his baby sister that it amazes me. He's very gentle and
caring and loving, and yet my mom's friend has a son and younger daughter
just a bit older than B and Amie, and the boy is so very, very mean to his
baby sister. I always told Bran that the doll was like a baby... You have
to be very gentle with it, like you would be with a baby.
Post by Bev
Please mothers and fathers of boys enlighten me! What should I
or can I do to do the right thing? I myself have no feelings that a
three year old boy has any thoughts of sexual orientation or that
innocent play at this age will turn him into a homosexual. I know as a
fact that this little guy has been taught to not like the color pink,
he refuses to eat or drink out of anything pink or play with anything
pink including pink clothing.
Nothing 'turns' someone into a homosexual. It has nothing at all to do with
the way a child is or was raised. You cannot just decide you'd like to be
gay or not, it's something that isn't controlled, AFAIC, and the only thing,
I believe, that will come out of making a little boy despise pink, dolls,
whatever it may be, is that they will probably continue this learned
behaviour through their childhood and carry it with them as adults. I
believe that it could cause a child to believe it is alright to hate, even
if it is the color pink or a Barbie.
I believe 'Kate suggested above something about trying to let them play
whatever they want early in the day and have time to distract him with
something else for when Mom gets home. You're NOT hurting him by allowing
him to express himself through play. Other than actions and play, there's
really not many other ways a child knows how to express themselves at that
age. They cannot and do not pick up a pen and write their feelings down.
They do not write beautiful poems and make wonderful books about their
feelings and emotions. Play is a way that a child can express themselves
freely and openly while learning and having fun.
Post by Bev
I am upset that people would be so silly to do such a thing to a young
child. I know his Nanny Gayle would have a lot to say to her daughter,
I would be upset to have them pull him away from me if I spoke my mind
about how I feel.
Bev
I agree. Silly really isn't the word I would have used, but it works just
fine! ;) Allowing both children to play - be it your grandson playing with
the vanity set or your granddaughter playing with the Tonka trucks, there
really is no harm at all in that. You might harm a child more by denying
what they want when there really is no reason to say no. It's not like you
are hurting him or doing something wrong in any way. I really do like
'Kate's suggestion about starting the day off early and letting them play
dress-up, or whatever it may be... Maybe you could end the day before Mom
comes to get him by sitting both children down at the table to draw and
color... Maybe that could be an idea - some sort of art or craft set for
both grandchildren... Let them paint and color and draw and glue sparkles on
paper at the table half an hour or so before Mom's expected... Then he'll
either be in the process of making a ginormous mess on your kitchen table
with glue and glitter and crayons, or Mom will walk in to see him helping
you clean up the mess he just finished making... Then he'll have something
to give to you or Mom for the fridge!

I really have no other suggestions right now... I've done everything with my
son that would have your grandson's dad doing backflips, and I don't see
anything wrong with it at all! They're kids! They love to play, and
fantasy is just one of the many ways children develop. Good luck and
hopefully you can figure something out!
--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet?
Bev
2006-01-01 14:45:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by xkatx
I really don't think there's much of a difference at this age in raising
boys or girls. I also see no harm in a little boy playing dress up, just as
I see no harm in a little girl playing with trucks and GI Joes.
I agree with you totally.
Post by xkatx
As far as I'm concerned, playing is playing, but yes, I see your point of
not wanting to go against what Mom says, in the place of Grandma. There's
really not much you can do to explain this to a 3 year old. Your
granddaughter shouldn't be denied what is hers to play with, but how can you
say yes to her but not to your grandson?
exactly what I feel, I refuse to be unfair!

Do you have "boy" toys around?

Hell no! I am a lesbian rofl! ...sorry it was just "there" <grin>

Yes trucks motorcycles action figures basketball hoop we have bought
these items for my grand daughter as well and he has brought over some
of his!
Post by xkatx
Meh. I actually remember when I was about 8 years old, I dressed my little
brothers both up in my dresses. That would have made my brothers about 5
and 2, and I put their hair in piggies and bows and they looked so
beautiful. My mom's eyes popped right out of her head and she nearly busted
a gut laughing and even ran to get the camera. I do remember them agreeing
to it, and they even had a good laugh about it. Neither has turned gay
today because I made them all pretty when they were younger. Even today, my
son will sit with me in the bathroom while I do my hair or something. He
wanted his nails painted one day, so I bring out the nail polish and I
painted his nails the colors he wanted - purple and red and just one finger
blue. When he was about 2 or so, I put him in a set of underwear that I
didn't care much for that my grandma bought - because it was a good price -
that would never fit her in a million years... So off I go with B to the
back room, put on a floral bra and matching panties over his clothes and
send him out to see Baba, Grandma and Uncle. My cousin took a picture of
it, and we all had a good laugh about it. Last year for B's birthday, my
cousin took that picture and made a birthday card for B with that picture on
it. Again, we all had a pretty good laugh.
For my SON'S first Christmas, I bought him a little doll. It was a little
boy doll, and the only person who had a problem with it was my uncle, one of
my brothers and my dad didn't care much for it, but you know what? Bran is
now so good with his baby sister that it amazes me. He's very gentle and
caring and loving, and yet my mom's friend has a son and younger daughter
just a bit older than B and Amie, and the boy is so very, very mean to his
baby sister. I always told Bran that the doll was like a baby... You have
to be very gentle with it, like you would be with a baby.
I agree that introducing a baby doll to a young boy child will develop
a nurturing that is important for boys to learn. Why shouldn't boys
learn how to handle and nurture a baby ?
Post by xkatx
Nothing 'turns' someone into a homosexual. It has nothing at all to do with
the way a child is or was raised. You cannot just decide you'd like to be
gay or not, it's something that isn't controlled, AFAIC, and the only thing,
I believe, that will come out of making a little boy despise pink, dolls,
whatever it may be, is that they will probably continue this learned
behaviour through their childhood and carry it with them as adults. I
believe that it could cause a child to believe it is alright to hate, even
if it is the color pink or a Barbie.
Yea, I agree, It is absurd to teach young children to dislike anything.
They are being denied thier own free choice, and in some cases being
taught to be predjudiced.
Post by xkatx
I believe 'Kate suggested above something about trying to let them play
whatever they want early in the day and have time to distract him with
something else for when Mom gets home. You're NOT hurting him by allowing
him to express himself through play. Other than actions and play, there's
really not many other ways a child knows how to express themselves at that
age. They cannot and do not pick up a pen and write their feelings down.
They do not write beautiful poems and make wonderful books about their
feelings and emotions. Play is a way that a child can express themselves
freely and openly while learning and having fun.
Yea It makes sense to allow the play, I guess, but even my 2 yr. old
grand daughter tells all about what she does throughout a day. He is
gonna tell! LOL! Oh well ! Oh boy the messes ! Believe me we are no
strangers to that! :)
Post by xkatx
Post by Bev
I am upset that people would be so silly to do such a thing to a young
child. I know his Nanny Gayle would have a lot to say to her daughter,
I would be upset to have them pull him away from me if I spoke my mind
about how I feel.
Bev
I agree. Silly really isn't the word I would have used, but it works just
fine! ;) Allowing both children to play - be it your grandson playing with
the vanity set or your granddaughter playing with the Tonka trucks, there
really is no harm at all in that.
Silly is not the words I really wanted to use ! We have a very wide
assortment of boys and girls toys and "unisex" if you will, as well .
It is a shame that anyone would be so damn stupid about this with
children so young.
Bev
Moon Shyne
2005-12-31 23:10:27 UTC
Permalink
As the mother of a boy, I can tell you - it's perfectly normal to want to
join in the fun, too.

I agree with Kate - he isn't gay, he's not a transvestite, and he isn't
going to come to any harm.

Whoever is paranoid about the color pink should be seeking their own
therapy, if you want my opinion.

Actors wear make up routinely - even the male ones!

Let him play - I cherish the photos I have when my son did the same thing -
looked like a young Liza Minelli.
Post by Bev
As I have mentioned before I babysit my 3 year old grandson. On several
occasions , while he and my grandaughter are playing they play
dress-up. One day my step daughter arrived to pick him up and he had
little pony tails and baretts all over his head. She asked what is
that? Mari explained my grandaughter wanted these things in her hair
and he asked to have them too so she put them in. My step daughter says
oh don't let his father see this. We laughed and said it is innocent
play. The next day he arrived with a crew cut!
Then the real problems began when my granddaugher got a vanity set with
play lipstick and rouge, and earings and even a little purple tu-tu,
ballerina slippers and Tiara . He wants to wear these things and I
really myself feel it is harmless, but then I have never had a boy to
raise and never have been confronted with this before. I know his
mother does not want him to play this way , it is not my place to allow
something she is against and I do not know how to explain this to a
three year old. Mind you it is not fair to allow my grandaughter this
and say no to him? I have tried putting the stuff away but if my
grandaughter asks for it , I feel it is something she should not be
denied. Then there are the times he finds her dresses and puts them on
himself. Please mothers and fathers of boys enlighten me! What should I
or can I do to do the right thing? I myself have no feelings that a
three year old boy has any thoughts of sexual orientation or that
innocent play at this age will turn him into a homosexual. I know as a
fact that this little guy has been taught to not like the color pink,
he refuses to eat or drink out of anything pink or play with anything
pink including pink clothing.
I am upset that people would be so silly to do such a thing to a young
child. I know his Nanny Gayle would have a lot to say to her daughter,
I would be upset to have them pull him away from me if I spoke my mind
about how I feel.
Bev
Bev
2006-01-01 14:04:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moon Shyne
As the mother of a boy, I can tell you - it's perfectly normal to want to
join in the fun, too.
I didn't think making a big deal out of it was the right thing for his
mom and dad to do.
Post by Moon Shyne
I agree with Kate - he isn't gay, he's not a transvestite, and he isn't
going to come to any harm.
It's certainly not that I think that this type of play could possibly
direct a childs sexual orientation.
Post by Moon Shyne
Whoever is paranoid about the color pink should be seeking their own
therapy, if you want my opinion.
I totally agree with you , I was shocked the day I set up the table
with bowls and cups for breakfast and he sat there and would not say
anything or eat his cereal . When I asked him why he wasn't eating he
said I dont like pink ! I never thought about it we have a set of pink
bowls and cups that are plastic for the baby. Ask him why he does not
like pink and he has no answer . All I said was well pink is a nice
color I like it but if you dont like it that is o.k. and I gave him
another bowl.
Post by Moon Shyne
Actors wear make up routinely - even the male ones!
yep :)
Post by Moon Shyne
Let him play - I cherish the photos I have when my son did the same thing -
looked like a young Liza Minelli.
I have and will continue to let him play, I just really wish I didn't
have to fear his parents coming and catching it.

Bev
Tiffany
2006-01-01 00:09:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bev
As I have mentioned before I babysit my 3 year old grandson. On several
occasions , while he and my grandaughter are playing they play
dress-up. One day my step daughter arrived to pick him up and he had
little pony tails and baretts all over his head. She asked what is
that? Mari explained my grandaughter wanted these things in her hair
and he asked to have them too so she put them in. My step daughter says
oh don't let his father see this. We laughed and said it is innocent
play. The next day he arrived with a crew cut!
Then the real problems began when my granddaugher got a vanity set with
play lipstick and rouge, and earings and even a little purple tu-tu,
ballerina slippers and Tiara . He wants to wear these things and I
really myself feel it is harmless, but then I have never had a boy to
raise and never have been confronted with this before. I know his
mother does not want him to play this way , it is not my place to allow
something she is against and I do not know how to explain this to a
three year old. Mind you it is not fair to allow my grandaughter this
and say no to him? I have tried putting the stuff away but if my
grandaughter asks for it , I feel it is something she should not be
denied. Then there are the times he finds her dresses and puts them on
himself. Please mothers and fathers of boys enlighten me! What should I
or can I do to do the right thing? I myself have no feelings that a
three year old boy has any thoughts of sexual orientation or that
innocent play at this age will turn him into a homosexual. I know as a
fact that this little guy has been taught to not like the color pink,
he refuses to eat or drink out of anything pink or play with anything
pink including pink clothing.
I am upset that people would be so silly to do such a thing to a young
child. I know his Nanny Gayle would have a lot to say to her daughter,
I would be upset to have them pull him away from me if I spoke my mind
about how I feel.
Bev
Everyone says "He isn't gay or a trans...." So what if he would be???

But they are right, he is to young to know the difference and just wants to
play.

Why does the parents want to put gender roles into his life? Will they also
teach him its not manly to cry? To miss his mommy? That he should beat up
other boys??

Grrr. There was an excellent book I read about boys and men and how they are
raised. Damn if I can't remember what it is called but when it comes to me,
I will post it.

Tiff
'Kate
2006-01-01 04:27:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tiffany
Post by Bev
As I have mentioned before I babysit my 3 year old grandson. On several
occasions , while he and my grandaughter are playing they play
dress-up. One day my step daughter arrived to pick him up and he had
little pony tails and baretts all over his head. She asked what is
that? Mari explained my grandaughter wanted these things in her hair
and he asked to have them too so she put them in. My step daughter says
oh don't let his father see this. We laughed and said it is innocent
play. The next day he arrived with a crew cut!
Then the real problems began when my granddaugher got a vanity set with
play lipstick and rouge, and earings and even a little purple tu-tu,
ballerina slippers and Tiara . He wants to wear these things and I
really myself feel it is harmless, but then I have never had a boy to
raise and never have been confronted with this before. I know his
mother does not want him to play this way , it is not my place to allow
something she is against and I do not know how to explain this to a
three year old. Mind you it is not fair to allow my grandaughter this
and say no to him? I have tried putting the stuff away but if my
grandaughter asks for it , I feel it is something she should not be
denied. Then there are the times he finds her dresses and puts them on
himself. Please mothers and fathers of boys enlighten me! What should I
or can I do to do the right thing? I myself have no feelings that a
three year old boy has any thoughts of sexual orientation or that
innocent play at this age will turn him into a homosexual. I know as a
fact that this little guy has been taught to not like the color pink,
he refuses to eat or drink out of anything pink or play with anything
pink including pink clothing.
I am upset that people would be so silly to do such a thing to a young
child. I know his Nanny Gayle would have a lot to say to her daughter,
I would be upset to have them pull him away from me if I spoke my mind
about how I feel.
Bev
Everyone says "He isn't gay or a trans...." So what if he would be???
The parents would blame Bev. Judging by the haircut and rules about the
color pink and the hairdo, the parents are not thrilled with the idea of
their son being homosexual, etc. The parents are wack. :-)
Post by Tiffany
Why does the parents want to put gender roles into his life? Will they also
teach him its not manly to cry? To miss his mommy? That he should beat up
other boys??
Probably so. And he'll turn into a serial killer full of resentment for
his parents but at least he won't be homosexual.

Who knew there were parents like that still.

'Kate
Bev
2006-01-01 13:26:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by 'Kate
Post by Tiffany
Everyone says "He isn't gay or a trans...." So what if he would be???
The parents would blame Bev. Judging by the haircut and rules about the
color pink and the hairdo, the parents are not thrilled with the idea of
their son being homosexual, etc. The parents are wack. :-)
Yea they are wack, I am at a loss with this, maybe accepting your mom
was a lesbian is easier.for my step daughter than to accept her son
would be gay. This is pretty common actually....for some odd ball
reason many people especially men have no problem with lesbians but gay
men flip them out........
Post by 'Kate
Post by Tiffany
Why does the parents want to put gender roles into his life? Will they also
teach him its not manly to cry? To miss his mommy? That he should beat up
other boys??
Probably so. And he'll turn into a serial killer full of resentment for
his parents but at least he won't be homosexual.
Who knew there were parents like that still.
.....he kicks animals, and needs to be watched closely with them. He is
violent and very rough in play as well. When he first came to us we
almost said "sorry" and decided that maybe what really was best for him
was if we worked with him.He has been from babysitter to babysitter
since he was an infant. I thought maybe he had security issues or maybe
out of wack with no set schedule or consistency. He has come a long way
since when we first got him and I know most of his behaviours are
taught. There are two people in his household that punch, kick and beat
the dogs, he violently goes after his sister 10 if she says no to him
or takes something away he should not have. We had a very hard time
when this all began, to a point I did discuss his violent and
belligerant behavior. He would totally ignore instruction . His mother
said to smack his butt. We did time out we talked and explained we
removed him from the rest of the activity to get his attention and
finally I spent two days smacking his butt when nothing else worked and
I have not had to smack his butt since ! It worked...I hated it but it
worked. He is changing nicely with us and I know he needs what he is
getting with us, he has a consistent routine and has learned what his
behavior needs to be here. His father is a functioning alcoholic and i
know he has puched walls and kicked in the front door at least twice
and that my other two older grandkids (14 and 10) are afraid of him "he
is not their dad" This has been going on a very long time and I have
discussed this with Gayle's daughter and she says "he is not an
alcoholic" he just drinks a little too much sometimes"........They are
getting married next year I know the kids are unhappy and all I can do
is have them to my place as often as possible to give them a safe place
to be and a break from "HOME" It is really sad. What stinks is that I
know if I make to big a wave here the kids will be pulled away from me,
I do not know if I have any legal rights with this and I really just
want to be a part of their lives like I should be.
Bev
Post by 'Kate
'Kate
'Kate
2006-01-01 17:08:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bev
Post by 'Kate
Post by Tiffany
Everyone says "He isn't gay or a trans...." So what if he would be???
The parents would blame Bev. Judging by the haircut and rules about the
color pink and the hairdo, the parents are not thrilled with the idea of
their son being homosexual, etc. The parents are wack. :-)
Yea they are wack, I am at a loss with this, maybe accepting your mom
was a lesbian is easier.for my step daughter than to accept her son
would be gay. This is pretty common actually....for some odd ball
reason many people especially men have no problem with lesbians but gay
men flip them out........
Post by 'Kate
Post by Tiffany
Why does the parents want to put gender roles into his life? Will they also
teach him its not manly to cry? To miss his mommy? That he should beat up
other boys??
Probably so. And he'll turn into a serial killer full of resentment for
his parents but at least he won't be homosexual.
Who knew there were parents like that still.
.....he kicks animals, and needs to be watched closely with them. He is
violent and very rough in play as well. When he first came to us we
almost said "sorry" and decided that maybe what really was best for him
was if we worked with him.He has been from babysitter to babysitter
since he was an infant. I thought maybe he had security issues or maybe
out of wack with no set schedule or consistency. He has come a long way
since when we first got him and I know most of his behaviours are
taught. There are two people in his household that punch, kick and beat
the dogs, he violently goes after his sister 10 if she says no to him
or takes something away he should not have. We had a very hard time
when this all began, to a point I did discuss his violent and
belligerant behavior. He would totally ignore instruction . His mother
said to smack his butt. We did time out we talked and explained we
removed him from the rest of the activity to get his attention and
finally I spent two days smacking his butt when nothing else worked and
I have not had to smack his butt since ! It worked...I hated it but it
worked.
Don't feel bad about it. The parents set him up so that all he would
listen to was the spanking. It won't hurt him down the line. He'll never
remember that but he will remember being shunned by his peers in school
if he doesn't learn to play nice and control his behavior.
Post by Bev
He is changing nicely with us and I know he needs what he is
getting with us, he has a consistent routine and has learned what his
behavior needs to be here. His father is a functioning alcoholic and i
know he has puched walls and kicked in the front door at least twice
and that my other two older grandkids (14 and 10) are afraid of him "he
is not their dad" This has been going on a very long time and I have
discussed this with Gayle's daughter and she says "he is not an
alcoholic" he just drinks a little too much sometimes"........
<sigh>
Post by Bev
They are
getting married next year I know the kids are unhappy and all I can do
is have them to my place as often as possible to give them a safe place
to be and a break from "HOME" It is really sad. What stinks is that I
know if I make to big a wave here the kids will be pulled away from me,
I do not know if I have any legal rights with this and I really just
want to be a part of their lives like I should be.
Welcome to the wonderful world of stay-at-home parenting/grandparenting.
We get all the kids who have horrid home lives... they're drawn to homes
that are less emotionally volitile. I can't count the number of kids who
have lived under my roof from time to time... kids whose parents were
getting divorced (or should be), kids whose parents don't bother asking
where they are or care that they've been with me for months... kids who
are hungry, kids who don't have a bed to sleep in because mom and the
boyfriend are in the bedroom of a very small apartment.

Here, cultural differences seem to come into play more often than not.
This area is 90% Mexican/American and it's taken me awhile to understand
that the children can run around in a grocery store with other kids...
the village concept permits that. It's ok for male Mexican/American
teens to be off on their own as long as *someone* is taking care of
them. White America sees children out of control and neglectful parents.
heh. Tangent alert.

Anyway... no wonder that father drinks if he's been raised by parents
with very rigid rules about behavior. I'll bet he has some interesting
conversations in his head.

'Kate
Tiffany
2006-01-02 02:14:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by 'Kate
Post by Tiffany
Post by Bev
As I have mentioned before I babysit my 3 year old grandson. On several
occasions , while he and my grandaughter are playing they play
dress-up. One day my step daughter arrived to pick him up and he had
little pony tails and baretts all over his head. She asked what is
that? Mari explained my grandaughter wanted these things in her hair
and he asked to have them too so she put them in. My step daughter says
oh don't let his father see this. We laughed and said it is innocent
play. The next day he arrived with a crew cut!
Then the real problems began when my granddaugher got a vanity set with
play lipstick and rouge, and earings and even a little purple tu-tu,
ballerina slippers and Tiara . He wants to wear these things and I
really myself feel it is harmless, but then I have never had a boy to
raise and never have been confronted with this before. I know his
mother does not want him to play this way , it is not my place to allow
something she is against and I do not know how to explain this to a
three year old. Mind you it is not fair to allow my grandaughter this
and say no to him? I have tried putting the stuff away but if my
grandaughter asks for it , I feel it is something she should not be
denied. Then there are the times he finds her dresses and puts them on
himself. Please mothers and fathers of boys enlighten me! What should I
or can I do to do the right thing? I myself have no feelings that a
three year old boy has any thoughts of sexual orientation or that
innocent play at this age will turn him into a homosexual. I know as a
fact that this little guy has been taught to not like the color pink,
he refuses to eat or drink out of anything pink or play with anything
pink including pink clothing.
I am upset that people would be so silly to do such a thing to a young
child. I know his Nanny Gayle would have a lot to say to her daughter,
I would be upset to have them pull him away from me if I spoke my mind
about how I feel.
Bev
Everyone says "He isn't gay or a trans...." So what if he would be???
The parents would blame Bev. Judging by the haircut and rules about the
color pink and the hairdo, the parents are not thrilled with the idea of
their son being homosexual, etc. The parents are wack. :-)
Post by Tiffany
Why does the parents want to put gender roles into his life? Will they also
teach him its not manly to cry? To miss his mommy? That he should beat up
other boys??
Probably so. And he'll turn into a serial killer full of resentment for
his parents but at least he won't be homosexual.
Who knew there were parents like that still.
'Kate
There are tons of parents just like that unfortunately. I still haven't
thought of the name of that book. Bet you read it though.... lol!

Tiff
Bev
2006-01-01 13:31:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tiffany
Everyone says "He isn't gay or a trans...." So what if he would be???
I certainly am not predjudice! I believe what everyone is meaning is
that this dress up play is not indicating that the little guy will turn
out to be.
Post by Tiffany
But they are right, he is to young to know the difference and just wants to
play.
absolutely what I feel , I am torn by permitting it knowing his parents
do not approve.
Post by Tiffany
Why does the parents want to put gender roles into his life? Will they also
teach him its not manly to cry? To miss his mommy? That he should beat up
other boys??
unfortunately I think you have hit it on the head there.
Post by Tiffany
Grrr. There was an excellent book I read about boys and men and how they are
raised. Damn if I can't remember what it is called but when it comes to me,
I will post it.
Thank you Tiff :)
Bev
Post by Tiffany
Tiff
CME
2006-01-03 08:44:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tiffany
Why does the parents want to put gender roles into his life? Will they
also teach him its not manly to cry? To miss his mommy? That he should
beat up other boys??
Grrr. There was an excellent book I read about boys and men and how they
are raised. Damn if I can't remember what it is called but when it comes
to me, I will post it.
Tiff
Please do, I'd be interested in reading it.

Christine
Tiffany
2006-01-03 15:07:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by CME
Post by Tiffany
Why does the parents want to put gender roles into his life? Will they
also teach him its not manly to cry? To miss his mommy? That he should
beat up other boys??
Grrr. There was an excellent book I read about boys and men and how they
are raised. Damn if I can't remember what it is called but when it comes
to me, I will post it.
Tiff
Please do, I'd be interested in reading it.
Christine
I wish I could think of it! GRR!

T
CME
2006-01-03 08:39:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bev
As I have mentioned before I babysit my 3 year old grandson. On several
occasions , while he and my grandaughter are playing they play
dress-up. One day my step daughter arrived to pick him up and he had
little pony tails and baretts all over his head. She asked what is
that? Mari explained my grandaughter wanted these things in her hair
and he asked to have them too so she put them in. My step daughter says
oh don't let his father see this. We laughed and said it is innocent
play. The next day he arrived with a crew cut!
Then the real problems began when my granddaugher got a vanity set with
play lipstick and rouge, and earings and even a little purple tu-tu,
ballerina slippers and Tiara . He wants to wear these things and I
really myself feel it is harmless, but then I have never had a boy to
raise and never have been confronted with this before. I know his
mother does not want him to play this way , it is not my place to allow
something she is against and I do not know how to explain this to a
three year old. Mind you it is not fair to allow my grandaughter this
and say no to him? I have tried putting the stuff away but if my
grandaughter asks for it , I feel it is something she should not be
denied. Then there are the times he finds her dresses and puts them on
himself. Please mothers and fathers of boys enlighten me! What should I
or can I do to do the right thing? I myself have no feelings that a
three year old boy has any thoughts of sexual orientation or that
innocent play at this age will turn him into a homosexual. I know as a
fact that this little guy has been taught to not like the color pink,
he refuses to eat or drink out of anything pink or play with anything
pink including pink clothing.
I am upset that people would be so silly to do such a thing to a young
child. I know his Nanny Gayle would have a lot to say to her daughter,
I would be upset to have them pull him away from me if I spoke my mind
about how I feel.
Bev
My sons used to play with my makeup, wear my clothing and my high heels at
that age. Would they do that now??? Hell no! lol It's just a phase and
they're over-reacting about the whole thing. He's not going to have
identity issues just because he's mimicking women. Geez.

Christine
Denanson
2006-01-04 18:59:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bev
Then there are the times he finds her dresses and puts them on
himself.
All boys do this if they are around other children doing the same. The
also put on makeup.

No doubt about it, the boy is gay.
Personally I blame all these hetrosexual couples like his parents for
bringing them into the world.

Dennis
Bev
2006-01-04 19:56:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Denanson
Post by Bev
Then there are the times he finds her dresses and puts them on
himself.
All boys do this if they are around other children doing the same. The
also put on makeup.
Yes they do and it is harmless.
Post by Denanson
No doubt about it, the boy is gay.
Who knows? I think he is too young to have that kind of feelings about
himseIf . Just like my grandaughter thinks she can stand up and pee at
2 years old , they are curious ,innocent, and just beggining to learn
the differences between boys and girls. I'll love them the same no
matter who they grow up to love. :)
Post by Denanson
Personally I blame all these hetrosexual couples like his parents for
bringing them into the world.
Well, surely you jest, considering homosexual AND heterosexual men and
women do manage to have biological children that are not gay. Again,
surely, I hope you are trying to be funny on some sick humour level
that some people can accept. I personally do not find it funny to
reject a child because of being gay, it exists on a very large scale,
"Neanderthals" need to face it and God help their own children. There
IS no one to blame. Oh well........ I did wonder if anyone had a
different view on the subject, I asked for thoughts and opinions ,
thanks for yours. Bev
Post by Denanson
Dennis
Denanson
2006-01-06 21:47:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bev
Post by Denanson
Personally I blame all these hetrosexual couples like his parents for
bringing them into the world.
Well, surely you jest, considering homosexual AND heterosexual men and
women do manage to have biological children that are not gay.
My point entirely.


Again,
Post by Bev
surely, I hope you are trying to be funny on some sick humour level
that some people can accept. I personally do not find it funny to
reject a child because of being gay, it exists on a very large scale,
"Neanderthals" need to face it and God help their own children. There
IS no one to blame. Oh well........
Yeah, thats why I usually don't bother replying to your posts

Dennis
Bev
2006-01-07 10:17:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Denanson
Post by Bev
Post by Denanson
Personally I blame all these hetrosexual couples like his parents for
bringing them into the world.
Well, surely you jest, considering homosexual AND heterosexual men and
women do manage to have biological children that are not gay.
My point entirely.
O.K.
Post by Denanson
Again,
Post by Bev
surely, I hope you are trying to be funny on some sick humour level
that some people can accept. I personally do not find it funny to
reject a child because of being gay, it exists on a very large scale,
"Neanderthals" need to face it and God help their own children. There
IS no one to blame. Oh well........
Yeah, thats why I usually don't bother replying to your posts
That's O.K. as well, just my opinion on the subject I brought up.
I was asking for parents opinions of what my grandsons parents felt
about his dress up play. You chose to comment on something else, you
baited , I bit, I'm still learning about people around here, wont make
the same mistake again. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Bev
Post by Denanson
Dennis
Bev
2006-01-07 15:02:05 UTC
Permalink
Dennis, When I first typed this reply I was kinda upset that first I
felt your comments such as "No doubt about it the boy is gay" and "you
blame the parents for bringing "THEM" into the world" as negative
sarcasm and because this thread was brought on by a issue I was facing
with my grandsons parents ( that does personally upset me) that you
were deliberatly disrespecting me. So if this was not your intended
purpose for your post then I apologise, it gets hard to understand
sometimes just what someone is trying to express in type. What I post
here is only my own opinions and thoughts and feelings which of course
are not always going to chime in with everyone , maybe no one , I can
misunderstand what a comment meant and sometimes I may not clearly get
my point across the way I meant it to be understood, but at the same
time I do get something from my interaction here, I don't forget when I
first dropped by here for a little chat and how that went downhill. I
will try to be less defensive, that is something I am still learning in
life. So I just wanted to clarify that if I misunderstood, then I owe
you an apology, and I truly do mean it.
Bev
Post by Bev
Post by Denanson
Post by Bev
Post by Denanson
Personally I blame all these hetrosexual couples like his parents for
bringing them into the world.
Well, surely you jest, considering homosexual AND heterosexual men and
women do manage to have biological children that are not gay.
My point entirely.
O.K.
Post by Denanson
Again,
Post by Bev
surely, I hope you are trying to be funny on some sick humour level
that some people can accept. I personally do not find it funny to
reject a child because of being gay, it exists on a very large scale,
"Neanderthals" need to face it and God help their own children. There
IS no one to blame. Oh well........
Yeah, thats why I usually don't bother replying to your posts
That's O.K. as well, just my opinion on the subject I brought up.
I was asking for parents opinions of what my grandsons parents felt
about his dress up play. You chose to comment on something else, you
baited , I bit, I'm still learning about people around here, wont make
the same mistake again. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Bev
Post by Denanson
Dennis
CME
2006-01-07 22:01:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bev
Dennis, When I first typed this reply I was kinda upset that first I
felt your comments such as "No doubt about it the boy is gay" and "you
blame the parents for bringing "THEM" into the world" as negative
sarcasm and because this thread was brought on by a issue I was facing
with my grandsons parents ( that does personally upset me) that you
were deliberatly disrespecting me. So if this was not your intended
purpose for your post then I apologise, it gets hard to understand
sometimes just what someone is trying to express in type. What I post
here is only my own opinions and thoughts and feelings which of course
are not always going to chime in with everyone , maybe no one , I can
misunderstand what a comment meant and sometimes I may not clearly get
my point across the way I meant it to be understood, but at the same
time I do get something from my interaction here, I don't forget when I
first dropped by here for a little chat and how that went downhill. I
will try to be less defensive, that is something I am still learning in
life. So I just wanted to clarify that if I misunderstood, then I owe
you an apology, and I truly do mean it.
Bev
Being less defensive and reactive is a good thing because really, what was
the point of this? Why do you care what someone on the internet thinks? Oi.

Christine

PS: Dennis, you're a master-baiter. lol
Moon Shyne
2006-01-07 22:25:23 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by CME
Being less defensive and reactive is a good thing because really, what was
the point of this? Why do you care what someone on the internet thinks? Oi.
Perhaps being less antagonistic would be a good thing, too - all those
someone's on the internet are actually real people, with concerns and
feelings, and all the rest.
Post by CME
Christine
PS: Dennis, you're a master-baiter. lol
Bev
2006-01-08 17:18:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moon Shyne
<snip>
Post by CME
Being less defensive and reactive is a good thing because really, what was
the point of this? Why do you care what someone on the internet thinks? Oi.
Perhaps being less antagonistic would be a good thing, too - all those
someone's on the internet are actually real people, with concerns and
feelings, and all the rest.
Moonshyne,
I agree with what you posted. I am as guilty as the next of losing
sight of the respect, and using the power and safety of the keyboard
and the "internet" to mistreat people. I care to make an effort to
change.
Bev
Post by Moon Shyne
Post by CME
Christine
PS: Dennis, you're a master-baiter. lol
Moon Shyne
2006-01-09 10:27:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bev
Post by Moon Shyne
<snip>
Post by CME
Being less defensive and reactive is a good thing because really, what was
the point of this? Why do you care what someone on the internet
thinks?
Oi.
Perhaps being less antagonistic would be a good thing, too - all those
someone's on the internet are actually real people, with concerns and
feelings, and all the rest.
Moonshyne,
I agree with what you posted. I am as guilty as the next of losing
sight of the respect, and using the power and safety of the keyboard
and the "internet" to mistreat people. I care to make an effort to
change.
(psst, Bev - it wasn't necessarily directed at you)

:-)
Post by Bev
Bev
Post by Moon Shyne
Post by CME
Christine
PS: Dennis, you're a master-baiter. lol
Bev
2006-01-09 10:59:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moon Shyne
Post by Bev
Post by Moon Shyne
<snip>
Post by CME
Being less defensive and reactive is a good thing because really, what was
the point of this? Why do you care what someone on the internet
thinks?
Oi.
Perhaps being less antagonistic would be a good thing, too - all those
someone's on the internet are actually real people, with concerns and
feelings, and all the rest.
Moonshyne,
I agree with what you posted. I am as guilty as the next of losing
sight of the respect, and using the power and safety of the keyboard
and the "internet" to mistreat people. I care to make an effort to
change.
(psst, Bev - it wasn't necessarily directed at you)
:-)
:-) yea, I know what you are saying......I wanted to just say that I
agreed and I'm not a little miss innocent, but thanks for caring to
make sure I understood. <grin>
Bev
Post by Moon Shyne
Post by Bev
Bev
Post by Moon Shyne
Post by CME
Christine
PS: Dennis, you're a master-baiter. lol
Bev
2006-01-08 17:08:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by CME
Post by Bev
Dennis, When I first typed this reply I was kinda upset that first I
felt your comments such as "No doubt about it the boy is gay" and "you
blame the parents for bringing "THEM" into the world" as negative
sarcasm and because this thread was brought on by a issue I was facing
with my grandsons parents ( that does personally upset me) that you
were deliberatly disrespecting me. So if this was not your intended
purpose for your post then I apologise, it gets hard to understand
sometimes just what someone is trying to express in type. What I post
here is only my own opinions and thoughts and feelings which of course
are not always going to chime in with everyone , maybe no one , I can
misunderstand what a comment meant and sometimes I may not clearly get
my point across the way I meant it to be understood, but at the same
time I do get something from my interaction here, I don't forget when I
first dropped by here for a little chat and how that went downhill. I
will try to be less defensive, that is something I am still learning in
life. So I just wanted to clarify that if I misunderstood, then I owe
you an apology, and I truly do mean it.
Bev
Being less defensive and reactive is a good thing because really, what was
the point of this? Why do you care what someone on the internet thinks? Oi.
Christine
PS: Dennis, you're a master-baiter. lol
Christine,

I care to answer you about your questions. The point of my
clarification was for me to explain to Dennis my response to him and
how I feel after rereading everything that maybe I did in fact
misunderstand and that I wanted to apologise, nothing more nothing
less.
Why do I care what someone on the internet thinks? I care about my own
behavior towords anyone, as much as many feel this is not real life and
in many situations they may be right for themselves and how they use
the internet. I use the internet in many different ways. I have learned
that sometimes good things can happen between people on the internet.I
found" Mari the person that made my "real life" more complete on the
internet. I have found many interesting and knowledgeable people to
interact with. In this group I have found some peace of mind in my real
life, I value that, and I value the people that share what they know to
help others. Since being involved with online classes, I have met many
people that I share interests with and my classmates share valuable
advice and critique of my work. Without respect and learning to accept
constructive critiqing from others nothing can be learned. One of the
first lessons you learn when participating in an online classroom is
that it is very difficult sometimes to read someones point or meaning
in typed words because they lack the facial expression and tone of
voice that in a face to face conversation helps you to determine the
sincerity or emotion involved.
I myself do not participate in this group to disrespect people. I felt
I may have ended up direspecting him because of misunderstanding the
meaning in his words. If that be true , then what I care about is that
when I am wrong an apology is in order. It takes real people to type
the words we read in groups, IM's, and in chat rooms on the internet.
Bev
CME
2006-01-10 02:21:54 UTC
Permalink
"Bev" <***@aol.com> wrote in message news:***@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
One of the
Post by Bev
first lessons you learn when participating in an online classroom is
that it is very difficult sometimes to read someones point or meaning
in typed words because they lack the facial expression and tone of
voice that in a face to face conversation helps you to determine the
sincerity or emotion involved.
Then perhaps asking for clarification, instead of reacting would be in
order. That or glossing over what someone says, instead of dignifying it
with a response. JMO

Christine
Bev
2006-01-10 11:04:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bev
One of the
Post by Bev
first lessons you learn when participating in an online classroom is
that it is very difficult sometimes to read someones point or meaning
in typed words because they lack the facial expression and tone of
voice that in a face to face conversation helps you to determine the
sincerity or emotion involved.
Then perhaps asking for clarification, instead of reacting would be in
order. That or glossing over what someone says, instead of dignifying it
with a response. JMO
Christine
...........and a very good opinion indeed! I think I will try and do
just that, Thanks Christine.
Bev
A Man
2006-01-05 13:18:53 UTC
Permalink
This play is harmless and is just a phase. Let him get it out of his system,
or he will be more likely to experiment when he is a teen. Which is worse,
wearing a lipstick now or when he is a teen?
--
Sig: Say no to fixed width HTML tables. They look terrible in most browsers.
Zorro
2006-01-05 15:00:58 UTC
Permalink
A Man wrote ...
Post by A Man
This play is harmless and is just a phase. Let him get it out of his
system, or he will be more likely to experiment when he is a teen.
Which is worse, wearing a lipstick now or when he is a teen?
ummm... neither?

I'm sorry ... but *why* would it be *Wrong* when he is a teen?


ok...

I really need to stay out of this thread...
I really need to stay out of this thread...
I really need to stay out of this thread...
I really need to stay out of this thread...
I really need to stay out of this thread...

thats better.

z
Bev
2006-01-05 16:07:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zorro
A Man wrote ...
Post by A Man
This play is harmless and is just a phase. Let him get it out of his
system, or he will be more likely to experiment when he is a teen.
Which is worse, wearing a lipstick now or when he is a teen?
ummm... neither?
I guess it really is society that has limited what some feel is o.k.
for a boy. "Different " is accepted more than Gay.
Post by Zorro
I'm sorry ... but *why* would it be *Wrong* when he is a teen?
I truly think if I were to encounter a teen boy with ruby red lipstick
and pink nail polish my eyebrow may raise , but in amusement of his
individuality. I would not immediately say "Oh he is gay" and if he was
it would not mean a thing to me. I kinda understand the judgement of
people is pretty normal for some, I have had the smirks and whispers
happen to me in an auto parts store.....It does not compute to some
people that there just may be women that enjoy working on cars and do
not worry to be seen with a hand full of grease in her hair or under
her fingernails. I surely am not going to go inside and shower and
clean up to go get a part I need! I do not feel that this hobby of mine
is what should classify my sexuality, but I see it all the time, and I
am amused by the ignorance!
Post by Zorro
ok...
I really need to stay out of this thread...
I really need to stay out of this thread...
I really need to stay out of this thread...
I really need to stay out of this thread...
I really need to stay out of this thread...
Yea I may get to this point eventually as well, ya know "it's all fun
and games for some people until someone loses an eye" I did bring a
serious issue to the group, I hope it does not lose respect.
Bev
Post by Zorro
thats better.
z
A Man
2006-01-06 18:20:06 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 15:00:58 -0000 in article <1136473270.1510.0
@spandrell.news.uk.clara.net>, ***@privacy.net spoke thusly...
Post by Zorro
A Man wrote ...
Post by A Man
This play is harmless and is just a phase. Let him get it out of his
system, or he will be more likely to experiment when he is a teen.
Which is worse, wearing a lipstick now or when he is a teen?
ummm... neither?
I'm sorry ... but *why* would it be *Wrong* when he is a teen?
I didn't say it was wrong. But as a teen he would be severely ridiculed by
peers and it would be even harder for the parents to find him like that as a
teen.

Because in today's society, being deviant (different) implies mental
dysfunction.
--
Sig: Say no to fixed width HTML tables. They look terrible in most browsers.
'Kate
2006-01-06 22:41:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by A Man
On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 15:00:58 -0000 in article <1136473270.1510.0
@spandrell.news.uk.clara.net>, ***@privacy.net spoke thusly...
Post by Zorro
A Man wrote ...
Post by A Man
This play is harmless and is just a phase. Let him get it out of his
system, or he will be more likely to experiment when he is a teen.
Which is worse, wearing a lipstick now or when he is a teen?
ummm... neither?
I'm sorry ... but *why* would it be *Wrong* when he is a teen?
I didn't say it was wrong. But as a teen he would be severely ridiculed by
peers and it would be even harder for the parents to find him like that as a
teen.
OMG.. not true. I've had boys over here with black eyeliner and
lipstick... it's not a big deal.
Post by A Man
Because in today's society, being deviant (different) implies mental
dysfunction.
It does?

huh. I guess that depends on where you live and how uptight people are
there.

'Kate
Bev
2006-01-05 15:53:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by A Man
This play is harmless and is just a phase. Let him get it out of his system,
or he will be more likely to experiment when he is a teen. Which is worse,
wearing a lipstick now or when he is a teen?
I feel it is quite harmless as well, having the opportunity to meet
some of my daughters teen boy "friends" I have also been introduced to
"Goth" which the boys do wear makeup! mostly black lipstick , black
nail polish, and eyeliner...........
Post by A Man
--
Sig: Say no to fixed width HTML tables. They look terrible in most browsers.
Bev
2006-01-07 01:14:09 UTC
Permalink
So how is everyone today? :-) I thought I would share how today's play
session went with my grandson.

I had him alone today and yes he went into my grand daughters room and
helped himself to the purple Tu Tu and Balliet slippers along with the
dangle earings and came out to show me while I was in the kitchen
slaving :) anyway, I said wow ! you look like you are having a good
time, he replied yes, I then said , now you know mommy and daddy really
rather you not play with those things and he said I like it, it's a
costume. I said yep you are absolutely right and we both went about our
business. I have to say at three he has more sence than his parents on
this LOL!

Just dropped my daughter and her bestest friend off in Allentown at
Crockadile rock for a concert of some local bands they are
following.... something called Emo ? LOL! anyway I asked if I could get
a ticket and stay with them and my daughter almost
fainted............Oh well, here I sit till I get the P/U call, me and
the Bulldog, seems it is me and that dog a lot lately.
Bev
'Kate
2006-01-07 04:01:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bev
So how is everyone today? :-) I thought I would share how today's play
session went with my grandson.
I had him alone today and yes he went into my grand daughters room and
helped himself to the purple Tu Tu and Balliet slippers along with the
dangle earings and came out to show me while I was in the kitchen
slaving :) anyway, I said wow ! you look like you are having a good
time, he replied yes, I then said , now you know mommy and daddy really
rather you not play with those things and he said I like it, it's a
costume. I said yep you are absolutely right and we both went about our
business. I have to say at three he has more sence than his parents on
this LOL!
Thankfully, someone in their house knows something about raising
children. :-)
Post by Bev
Just dropped my daughter and her bestest friend off in Allentown at
Crockadile rock for a concert of some local bands they are
following.... something called Emo ? LOL! anyway I asked if I could get
a ticket and stay with them and my daughter almost
fainted............Oh well, here I sit till I get the P/U call, me and
the Bulldog, seems it is me and that dog a lot lately.
Bev
Ah yes, the life of the mother of teen.

'Kate
Tiffany
2006-01-12 05:33:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bev
So how is everyone today? :-) I thought I would share how today's play
session went with my grandson.
I had him alone today and yes he went into my grand daughters room and
helped himself to the purple Tu Tu and Balliet slippers along with the
dangle earings and came out to show me while I was in the kitchen
slaving :) anyway, I said wow ! you look like you are having a good
time, he replied yes, I then said , now you know mommy and daddy really
rather you not play with those things and he said I like it, it's a
costume. I said yep you are absolutely right and we both went about our
business. I have to say at three he has more sence than his parents on
this LOL!
Just dropped my daughter and her bestest friend off in Allentown at
Crockadile rock for a concert of some local bands they are
following.... something called Emo ? LOL! anyway I asked if I could get
a ticket and stay with them and my daughter almost
fainted............Oh well, here I sit till I get the P/U call, me and
the Bulldog, seems it is me and that dog a lot lately.
Bev
If you don't understand what is meant by EMO, you might want to ask em. IT
may mean different things in different area's but emo bands are typically
the ones that sing about depression and suicide and cutting. I have listen
to lyrics that would make you cry by these emo bands.

Just keep an eye out. Teens.... yeah.

T
Moon Shyne
2006-01-12 10:39:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tiffany
If you don't understand what is meant by EMO, you might want to ask em.
Emo is short for Emotion or Emotional. The music is sort of new age punk
rock - and while yes, some of it is more depression oriented (for lack of a
better phrase), not all it.

Truthfully, I much prefer Emo to the rap crap my son listens to.
Moon Shyne
2006-01-12 10:41:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tiffany
If you don't understand what is meant by EMO, you might want to ask em. IT
may mean different things in different area's but emo bands are typically
the ones that sing about depression and suicide and cutting. I have listen
to lyrics that would make you cry by these emo bands.
Just keep an eye out. Teens.... yeah.
T
This is actually a pretty good site to explain Emo, and the sorts of music
it encompases

http://www.fourfa.com/
Bev
2006-01-12 12:43:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moon Shyne
Post by Tiffany
If you don't understand what is meant by EMO, you might want to ask em. IT
may mean different things in different area's but emo bands are typically
the ones that sing about depression and suicide and cutting. I have listen
to lyrics that would make you cry by these emo bands.
Just keep an eye out. Teens.... yeah.
T
Moonshyne and Tiff,

Thanks for responding to the Emo question. This is indeed kinda new for
my daughter, she flies in and out of interests. I get to listen to the
CD's she brings home from these concerts and I must say it runs from
interesting to annoying ! LOL! We have definately been through some
different styles of "Music" I can remember when Eminem first came to my
house and I told her if I hear it I will wing it out the window like a
frisbee. I have since heard some of his stuff that I actually like .
Music is a wonderful thing. I did check out the website on the Emo and
found it quite interesting thanks again.
Bev
Post by Moon Shyne
This is actually a pretty good site to explain Emo, and the sorts of music
it encompases
http://www.fourfa.com/
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